Podcast #21 : Gourmey Co-founder & CEO Nicolas Morin-Forest speaks with Andrew D. Ive from Big Idea Ventures about creating sustainable cultivated meat delights.
Podcasts
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
foie gras, company, product, cell, people, meat, chefs, working, called, cultivated, singapore, produced, instance, based, focused, nicolas, case, france, lines, taste
SPEAKERS
Nicolas Morin-Forest, Andrew D Ive
Andrew D Ive
Welcome to the big idea podcast focused on food. My name is Andrew Ive. I’m the founder of big idea ventures and today we’re going to be talking to Nicholas, the CEO of Gourmey, the most successful cell based company in France today. If you have any questions or comments, please do post them in in the usual places and let’s get on with the conversation.
Andrew D Ive
Hi, Nicholas. How are you?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Hi Andrew. I’m good. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Andrew D Ive
Of course. Welcome to the big idea podcast where we’re focused on food. Obviously, as always, we’re going to have a nice, very friendly conversation and we’re going to find out all about your company and all the great things you’re doing. So why don’t we just start with with who you are and what your company does?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Sure. So I’m Nicholas. I’m a French entrepreneur based in Paris and with Antoine and Victor, my two co founders, we have started a company called Gourmey. We are a multi faceted poultry company, that means that we are essentially producing real animal meat using self cultivation technologies, which makes real meat both tasty and much more sustainable than conventionally produced meat and the very first product that we are working on is a very French product.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
It’s actually Foie Gras, which is a lever product foise gras, and we have made tremendous progress around the previous months, which also ended up in multiple tastings that we had with the press recently. I’m not the one saying that the product is likely to be very good but other people like chefs of the press, have said it recently so it’s a very nice moment for the company where we are very proud of the progress and the trajectory.
Andrew D Ive
So spell the company name for me for everybody listening, so we get it right.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
It’s Gourmey. The last letter is Y and not a T.
Andrew D Ive
So Gourmey but the T has disappeared. It’s gone. It’s been cut out and it’s now a y Gourmey.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Exactly.
Andrew D Ive
And it’s Gourmey.com.?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Yes, as simple as gourmey.com.
Andrew D Ive
Okay, the reason I’m putting this out there up front is I want to make sure that if anyone was like, Oh, let me go read a little bit about this company, they can immediately go and look at your website, and so on. So you said you’re focused on something very French foise gras. I’m saying it as an Englishman, rather than as a Frenchman. Why why foise gras, I’m saying it horribly. Why foise gras?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
There are many reasons that made this product a very, very nice and strong first product. And the first reason is that it’s a gastronomy product and we really wanted to show that cultivated meat, could really jump into gastronomy and really provide a very refined very sophisticated food experience, because food is about the pleasure that you get from just eating and consuming something.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And we wanted to show that he could go beyond sausages, beyond burgers, beyond nuggets, or whatever and really provide restaurant grade, gastronomy grade, chef grade experiences. So that was one of the first reasons why we decided also as a French company, to start with this product to kind of combine innovation and tradition.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
French gastronomy with a huge level of innovation on the scientific division side on the biotech side. So how we could show that innovation and tradition could work hand in hand. We believe that this product, which is very old, very renowned, very well appreciated by French people, obviously, but people all around the globe could be a right match.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
The second aspect is also the sort of controversy that you have around this product. Because many people are judging this product quite cruel. Because of the way it’s produced. It’s produced through a technique called forced feeding, where animals are forced to consume specific quantities of food and this is why this product has been actually banned in many countries. The production is already banned in 17 countries as of now and even the consumption has been banned also in some regions, for instance, in California, you cannot legally consume it, New York has decided the same. The UK is also considering a potential ban on this product. So we really believe that if we want this product to be consumed in the next decades it will have to be reinvented to some extent and that’s really what we want to show.
Andrew D Ive
So many countries and many cities are banning foise gras because of the force feeding aspect of its traditional product, but the reality is that people love the taste, people love the gastronomic experience of foise gras and I guess, you know, Gourmey is going to be the first company, or already is the first company, that will give people the ability to consume it in a more ethical, sustainable way without the concern about banned products. Is that an accurate representation?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Yeah, perfectly accurate and the core of our focus is actually to be able to scale the production platform like any cultivated companies, but it’s also to be able to reach that taste parity. So really the two focuses that we have at Gourmey, are number one, taste parity and number two price parity, because people are not going to be following cultivating meat products if they’re not affordable, obviously. And that’s really the two factors that we work on and we have, as I said, in the introduction, very, very satisfying results with our current MVP prototypes, products, however, we want to call it.
Andrew D Ive
So let’s talk about that. Where are you? You say, close or good? Or is it? Is it identical? Is the taste magnific? Is it perfect? Is it almost look at me try my French words there? Is it? Is it close? Or? And do you still do you still have a lot of work to do? Where are you?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
I wouldn’t say it’s perfect, of course, we have seen a lot of populations to go for, but I would say it’s, at this stage, and undistinguishable from conventional Foise gras, if you don’t really know that you are eating this product. We have made multiple blind tests where our prototypes were tested among different conventionally produced foise gras.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And at this stage no one told the difference. We had people like really expert chefs, a French chef, for instance, was very used to working with this product, no one as of now has been able to really identify that it was some sort of a different product. They just didn’t find it the best of what they had in the samples in the testing. But no one was like, okay, there is something wrong with this product, it was more like this is excellent. This is very tasty. This is very good. And some people depending on their subjectivity and taste, would rank it differently, and would appreciate it differently. But I would say that we are like 90%, close to the conventionally produced foise gras.
Andrew D Ive
So being being a typical Frenchman, you’re sort of focusing in a very specific way. And what I mean by that is, I was really asking, is the taste close to foise gras? In other words, can you tell it’s foise gras? And what you just answered to me is, absolutely you can tell it’s for foise gras, but we’re focused on making it the best tasting for foise gras, it’s possible to make compared to every single traditional foise gras in the world. Now, that’s not really wha I was getting at. And it’s great that you aspire to be the number one best tasting foise gras in the world traditional or cell based, but I was just more interested in does it taste like foie gras? It sounds like it does. Yes.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
The short answer is yes, it does. The taste is right, the texture is right but if I’m really demanding with the product, and we are, I mean the whole company, our food engineers, our food scientists are extremely demanding with the level of taste and closeness that we reach comared to a chef product and our first customers and our first ambassadors are likely to be chefs so we want to have a product that chefs are really happy to work with and are really satisfied with so we need to go that extra mile.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
We are not working on more simple meat products that are more conventionally sold and commercialized by alternative proteins companies, in the case of this product it is a gastronomy product, a restaurant grade product. So we really need to be at the top level. But I think we are getting there. We are almost there, because we recently had tasting with chefs and they were saying to me, this is good, I can sell that in my restaurant, I’m fine with that. It was already a very, very nice achievement for the team. and it was very energizing but we still have some optimization .
Nicolas Morin-Forest
For instance, it needs to be good at high temperature, for instance, it needs to be pan fried. When chefs by foise gras, they want to put it in a very hot pan and the way it smells is really, really important. And it’s going to be that caramelization process that makes the crustiness of the surface very unique. And that will unleash all the flavors. This is the kind of experience where we want to be at the top level. Otherwise we are not going to have chefs on board but we’re very close to getting there.
Andrew D Ive
So in terms of the people who are tasting the product, in those sort of blind tests that you mentioned, and they chefs today, you’re using chef’s today to compare and contrast you are? Okay, because I was gonna say, is it somebody like me who wouldn’t know the difference? Or is it somebody, you know, who really, really understands the grades and the distinctions and the different flavors and complexities?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
We are working with the most sophisticated palate and people of the French gastronomy world, and people that are not only French, not only used to working with Foise Gras, but also in the case of one of our partnerships from the South West region. And that’s the region where Foise Gras was developed and got so popular. So it’s really people that know what they’re talking about and those who know what they are tasting that gave us this feedback? So, yeah.
Andrew D Ive
Are you looking for more chefs to get involved in France and other places to test to give their feedback?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Yes, definitely. Definitely. That’s something that is key for us to build on and to develop. So if there is any chef listening to us that is really interested about sustainable meat in general, and specifically helping to elevate or to provide very sophisticated delicacies like foise gras, please get in touch.
Andrew D Ive
Perfect and that would be through Gourmey, gourmey.com.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
I can give you a more direct way of contacting me, which is my email address. It’s nicholas@gourmey.com. So with the why.
Andrew D Ive
Nicholas without the H. So Nicolas?.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Withoutnthe H, exactly nicolas@gourmey.com.
Andrew D Ive
Perfect. Awesome. There are a couple of things running around in my head. One is price. So you mentioned taste was a key consideration? It sounds like you’re getting there, it sounds like it’s comparable with a range of foise gras. You haven’t got it as the number one yet, but it’s getting closer and closer. Thanks to a lot of help and input from some very, very good chefs. From a cost slash price perspective are you close to being able to produce it at a cost that’s somewhat comparable with traditional foise gras? Or if not, when do you think you’ll get there?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
No it’s always complicated to look at the cost of production for cultivated meat, cell based meat when they are still at the r&d stage, where they are not producing at full capacity, because obviously, the cost of production will be dramatically different from that stage to the other. So the goal of the company, and the obsession of the company is to be able to provide this product at price parity with conventional farm.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And I think that’s one of the main benefits of choosing this product as a first product is that we are on our way to being the first company with a price competitive product right at launch and not in five or seven years. And we know that most products that will be in their cultivated version might land on the market with a slight premium at first, in the case of Foise Gras, we want to be aligned with the conventional price points.
Andrew D Ive
And you say priced competitively or at the same price point as traditional foise gras at launch. So the next obvious question is, are you launching in 2050? Or when are you launching? Realistically speaking, when are you launching?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
We want to have our first chef, selling and recruiting and selling the product by the end of next year, or early 2023. So just to give you a range that will be between the last months of 2022 and spring, something like that 2023. It also depends on the regulatory approvals. I’m sure most of our listeners know that this is also a key challenge for cultivated meat, we need to get approvals in whatever geography we might be looking at. The agencies there will have to give that a go. And this is why it’s a bit hard to commit on a very specific precise launch date but we are doing our best to accelerate that and to make it happen as I said between the end of next year or early 2023.
Andrew D Ive
Now I originally understood or thought that from a regulatory perspective in Europe, you would need to basically get approval from the whole organization, the European Union, etc. Across cell based as a category, but it sounds like they may be prepared to tackle on a product by product basis, which could speed up the process for approval within Europe. Whereas without obviously talking about anything you’re not allowed to, but from a gourmet perspective, do you think it’ll be approved by I don’t know at the end of next year for sale in France and maybe in the broader Europe?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Not likely in Europe and in France and these are actually not our target markets. We are looking at markets where consumers are essentially forbidden to enjoy these delicacies. For instance, as I mentioned, California, that’s the state in the US where we want to be launching the product. In the city of New York, you have hundreds and 1000s of restaurants in New York that are already selling the product, that will need to find an alternative because simply the product has been banned. And the ban is going to take place in 2022.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So we are doing our best to kind of align these timings. Obviously, as I said, it depends on the regulatory agencies, so we cannot control the entire process. But it’s believed at the moment that Europe will not necessarily be the first mover when it comes to red cell based meat regulation and the process which is called the novel food process might take up from 12 ,18, 24 months. Sometimes we hear more, really depending on the quality of the file of the submission, because as you said, it’s going to be product by product company per company and every company for every product will have to produce an application file with a lot of data.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And depending on how this file is built, and depending on the pace of the agency, we should be seeing the first regulatory approvals between, as I said, one and two or three years, that’s the EU. Now if we’re looking at foreign markets outside of the EU, for us, if you look at Singapore, if you look at the Middle East, if you look at the US, obviously, things might may get faster. And this is also part of the reason why we are focusing our efforts on these markets. In the case of Singapore that we’ve already seen an approval for a cell based nuggets.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And just this week, actually, we have seen also another approval not for product, but for a production facility that will be able to produce cultivated meat. So things are moving very fast in Singapore. And I think it’s also going to accelerate in the US, USDA and the FDA, which are the two agencies that are working on the regulation and are making fast progress. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see another product getting regulated during the next months.
Andrew D Ive
So when you talk about launching this product, the end of 2022, beginning this sort of spring of 2023. You see that being predominantly in the US in, for example, New York, and you say the city of New York, so I’ll do the same thing the City of New York and California. Is that really where you’re targeting that launch right now?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Singapore and the US are definitely the two focusses of our regulatory efforts and our upscaling efforts at the moment.
Andrew D Ive
Interesting. So obviously Singapore from a regulatory perspective, when you and I first met we sort of identified or were talking about how outside of France the two biggest markets for our foise gras were Japan and China. Are they part of the launch plan at some point in the future?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Well, actually, China is a huge growing market, but it’s mostly for future products. We have a unique expertise on duck meat we are cultivating those cells. And actually China is the biggest market for duck meat. So we have future plans in Asia and China specifically, which are yes for them. But the huge part of the business will come from from duck meat products, other types of meats for Japan. Yes, we do have plans as well. I didn’t mention that. But it’s true. It’s one of the bidders foise gras market. In the case of Singapore it’s actually the environment and the formulation that huge appetite for innovation that is going on in Singapore.
Andrew D Ive
Do they have the market for it though? Do they have people the consumer base that’s looking for foise gras as part of their consumption patterns?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Well, obviously foise gras is a delicacy that you don’t consume at breakfast every day. It’s restaurant experience. So the news is that because of the price points, that it’s not a volume market, it’s more of a high value market. So you don’t need to sell 1000s of tons of foise gras to have a sustainable business. So we are really in a different position than other companies that are looking at huge market but are really almost commoditized where you really need to go into the volume strategy to really have an impact and to make a sustainable business.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
In our case we’re not worried about the volumes obviously doesn’t matter of course. But in Singapore, you have a wide scene of Japanese restaurants or French restaurants as well that are selling this product and it’s really a great thing. To start, and to really build also the category and the brand, because that’s also what we looked at before talking about volumes and the size of the market, we really want to build the brand we chef, and obviously the regulatory aspect, which will accelerate stuff.
Andrew D Ive
Perfect. So when you and I first met your company was very young, your valuation, you know, the value of the company was quite, quite young as well, over a very short period of time, probably two years, maybe a little bit more, a little bit less. I’m not sure exactly when we first met and started working together for years. Two years, yeah. Over that time, you’ve brought together a lot of interested parties in what you’re doing, you’ve been able to grow the company very quickly, the value of the company has increased quite dramatically. What do you think’s driving the level of interest in Gourmey and your mission? You know, how are you bringing such great partners together to kind of move your business forward? What’s causing the most excitement, do you think?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Well, I guess it’s what’s going on within the company. So it’s really about the team, and about the level of passion, and the fast pace of progress. I think that’s what has been gaining us significant traction. When you’re a young startup, it’s essentially I mean, from investors, for instance, you want to see something going on in this company, you want to see something happening, you want to sense that these people are doing something very, very interesting with a high level of passion.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And that is worth their attention. And I think that’s what we have been able to demonstrate, mostly by building the team of highly passionate people and I guess most entrepreneurs will say that, but in our case, I’m always impressed by the level of commitment and alignment that we have within the team, with people crossing from cell biology, to molecular biology, to food science, we have people with a business background as well.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And I think the inter-disciplinary of the company, and the fact that we are also a full stack company. So we are not only producing final products that will be ready to consume but we are also building a production platform, value production platform, highly scalable, we sales in dirt in Chico. And also we are considering expanding into other species. I think that’s really what gave us a lot of traction and everything kind of combined with the products that we had to taste, that we offered for tastings in the recent months where it was actually obvious that not only could you sense a strong energy and a strong level of passion and expertise within the team but it was also clear that we are building something that consumers may want because it’s very tasty and very good.
Andrew D Ive
So I mean, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen you guys grow incredibly, incredibly fast, incredibly quickly, the team you’ve put together is unpacked, I would say unparalleled, but then I’m going to get every other cell based company out there giving me a hard time but you really have built a very, very strong company. Have there been times where, you know, it’s been challenging? From the outside, it looks like it’s always been very quick, very easy, very efficient. Have there been times when you’ve been sort of banging your head against a wall and wondering what’s next?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, from the outside, it looks like a very sharp and clear trajectory but in fact, for all startups, it doesn’t go like that. It’s always ups and downs. What you want to make happen is that when you combine all the ups and downs, it still goes up, and it still goes into the right directions. But you’re moving forward moving because moving backward, you make mistakes. So yeah, obviously, just the fact that from the outside, it may look like it’s relatively easy, for us should not hide all of the hurdles, or the stress or the mistakes that we made.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And we made a lot of mistakes, for instance, in terms of building the team at first, because hiring is one of the key expertise that you don’t necessarily have when you’re starting a company. This is the key area where you need to improve as quickly as possible into sensing the right people who would be the right fit for the company. What does it mean to be the culture within the company? And well, we made mistakes.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
On the fundraising side also. I mean, we, for the first fundraisers, we had more than 100 no’s before finding the first yeses. So that’s something that usually we don’t make LinkedIn posts about, I guess we should because it’s real life and how it goes for real behind the scenes. But yes, we struggle on many aspects. But I think the drive was so strong that for the CO founding team, as well as for the first people who joined us, the drive was so strong and the mission was so strong and the passion level was very high that we were expecting it to be difficult to be hard.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So it was just that anyway, we know it’s going to work, we just don’t know when. So just keep working, just keep asking for investment at the very first days and months of the company. Although we had many people that were not really at the time excited about alternative proteins or activated meat two and a half years ago, it was actually even a newer field than it is today. So we also had to educate the VCs and investors that we were talking to. So it was a difficult process. Overall, I would say the fundraising and the hiring were the two main challenges for us in the early days and that doesn’t mean that we have solved them, we keep making mistakes. But I think we are getting better on these two fronts.
Andrew D Ive
So I’ve got two very quick questions. And then I know that you’ve got to run to your next meeting. First question is, for cell based companies, what kind of resources have or companies or, you know, groups have been helpful? So you? So for example, GSI? Or, you know, what, for a cell based company, what kind of resources do you find are available to support and help?
Andrew D Ive
So if other other entrepreneurs are looking to start a cell based company, that’s my question one. So I’ll give you a moment just to think about that. My question two is, in the cell based or cultured, meat, clean meat, whatever you want to call it, space, three, four years ago, it was very much about companies who were creating different cell lines. So you know, it was about, Hey, I’m going to do duck, hey, I’m gonna do chicken, hey, I’m gonna do beef, you know, lots of different companies and their focus, or their unique proposition was the cell line.
Andrew D Ive
But I’m starting to feel like in the cell based meatspace, there’s a lot of companies who are focused on cell line, we’re now sort of seeing more distinction and uniqueness, not around the cell line but for example, around the scaffold or the bio reactor or the, you know, the kind of tech, the solving the problems of the industry, as opposed to just creating another cell line. So question one, what resources were helpful to you as you scale the company, and that might be available to others? Outside of big idea ventures, this is not me asking you to tell people how great we are. Let’s say I was going to look at what we did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we’re amazing. I know, outside of big idea ventures, what what resources and people or teams or groups have been helpful to you.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So you mentioned the good for the Institute, I would really encourage anyone, young scientist, students, Union entrepreneurs, to kind of join this kind of network driven Institute is one, we also have local, cultivated meat networks in many countries. For instance, in France, we have a network called cellular agriculture of France and there is a website for that there is a Slack channel where you will meet dozens of people that are really excited about the field, whether they work directly in it, whether they are companies offering openings, offering jobs for you, who could really get you excited, or whether they are people from academia that are just really helping with their expertise, because it’s a very technical field.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So I would really encourage you to look in your country, if there is an equivalent of this network, there is one in Australia, there is one in Germany, there is one in the US, I’m sure you will be able to find a network of this type, and why not join because we have 60% of the company at this stage who have joined us from foreign countries, they were not necessarily based in France. So I really encourage you to join all these kind of global networks, international networks. And for the second question, which is actually what is our differentiator? Or how do you see the field evolving?
Andrew D Ive
Yeah, this is that’s kind of more of a question in terms of when we when you and I first started getting more and more involved in you, obviously you were doing it, I was investing in it. A lot of the companies were exciting because they were doing new cell lines. I’m seeing now, we’re seeing a lot of companies doing new cell lines, it’s very difficult to distinguish between the good and the not so good. Companies apart from spending a lot of time with the team. I guess. I’m asking where are you seeing innovation going in cell based clean meat, where are the boundaries or the kind of, you know, the areas of innovation now in cell based? it’s not just you, more cell lines, where are you seeing the progress? Where are you seeing the edges of innovation of a cell based, given that you live this every single day of your life now?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Sure. So first, I think it’s really important to have a lot of efforts on the cell lines, because it’s not only about choosing a species, like I’m going to work on poultry, I’m going to work on beef, but really having the best cell line, it’s really what is going to make a tremendous difference in the cost of production, you’re going to have companies with better cell lines than others. And this will allow them to be at price parity easier than other companies.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So I think it’s still a huge part of the important assets for any cell based meat company. And in our case, we have an amazing team working on developing the best cell lines and the most efficient cell lines, cell lines can grow very fast, we can grow in the most simplistic media formulation, for instance, and oh, that will still have a tremendous impact on for the consumers, notably on the price point.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Now, it’s true that it’s not only limited to that, and I think we now have enough companies that are purely focusing on these animals or these species. And it’s a bit hard for now, in 2021, to start a new company saying, Okay, I’m going to be a full stack beef cultivating beef company, I think you will need to find an angle in the technology in the whole supply chain. That is not that is whitespace. And that is not addressed enough by companies.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And you can think of gross factors, for instance, which are very expensive proteins that most cell based meat companies will need. You can think of bioreactor design, it’s still a pretty much open question, how we are going to reach the hundreds and 1000s of tonnes of biomass produced, I think we now all know how to make a few kilos, potentially a few tons but how are we going to reach that next level of really taking 20% 30% market shares in a huge market that is meat, and we’re 13 actually not only in hundreds and 1000s of tonnes, but in hundreds of millions of tonnes, and how we are going to reach that scale, that we really depend on the technology in terms of bioreactor that we are going to use.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And also a third pillar that is really important and very strong expertise and an amazing team is the product development and the food formulation. Because I think at first, the story, the narrative of cultivated meat might have been a bit simplistic, it was essentially like okay, we are going to harvest, ready to consume piece of meat out of the bioreactor and just put it on the plate, and it’s going to be a beef steak or a chicken breast. In fact, it’s a bit more complex than this and to some extent, it’s comparable to plant based meat, we are essentially recreating the structure of the product, improving the flavor profile.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And all of this is really, we really make a tremendous difference between companies that are very good at producing sales, but not necessarily good at making delicious products, and companies that can also make delicious products. And we might also see companies that are only focusing on making delicious products, using real animal cells without necessarily producing the sales and having the production platform.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So I think this is also whitespace in the field. At the moment, it’s a bit hard to start a company with this approach because it’s hard to source the sales. So if you want to be a product development company or product formulation company, and you don’t have access to sales is going to be a problem for you. But I think in the next years, we are going to be able to buy source sales from b2b companies that are just going to be selling sales. And you will be able to launch a company focused on retreating new delicacy using sales and your expertise will really be on the food science and the product development.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And in our case, we have internalized that and we have to build from the very early days, a very strong team, as I mentioned, a food scientist or food engineers that are kind of bridging the gap between conventionally produced meat and cultivated meat. Because it’s a bit too simplistic to say that it’s going to be perfectly identical right from the beginning, you’re going to need to read at the molecular level, what is going on.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
For instance, if you look further there is this force feeding period, what is going on at the molecular level during force feeding that makes the flavor so complex, the texture, so refined, so sophisticated, this is the kind of knowledge that you have to build. And we have many exciting openings in these areas that are going to be open in the next few months for food scientists for food engineers. That’s one of the aspects and also again, coming back to the cell line and to the molecular biology team to the cell biology team. It’s critical so to obviously not neglect that part and to really be able to build the most efficient cell lines and the most efficient production process and scaling trajectory essential.
Andrew D Ive
Understood, I think you’re right. I think it’s difficult for the investor, though, because truly understanding the distinctions and the value add between the different companies creating different cell lines is becoming more and more complex. But I guess that’s, you know, that’s why we have to, that’s why we do what we do.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And I think it’s also part of understanding what are the right metrics to assess the cell lines, for instance, hey, it’s really like an animal species that will grow faster or slower than another one. In the case of cell lines, you can really assess, okay, how much medium of the cell do I need? How fast are the doubling time of the cells? Because the cells grow by essentially dividing themselves? So how fast does it go in the case of your selling, so I think investors are more and more aware of the of the metrics to look at, and it will also help the entire ecosystem to essentially align on what would be the right technology choices, and who are the most promising companies and in our case, really, fully focused on having the best science, which still remains a very key asset?
Andrew D Ive
Perfect. So I’m going to cut it short in a few minutes, because you told me that you had a number of things you had to do. Are there any shoutouts to any companies that you’re working with that, you know, have been helpful? You know, any part any potential, like company partners that you’ve worked with, that you think deserve a mention? And then and then let’s go into if there is anyone that’s listening, that can be helpful to you in some way? What kind of help do you need? Is it more chefs? Is it more investors? Is it more potential recruits to join the team? Is it consumers that want to try the product? How can people be helpful to you and again, where can people reach out and talk to you about these things?
Nicolas Morin-Forest
First, so the shutout will be both a personal shout out and as well as a gourmet shout out. I will be naming the company called Finless Foods. Finless Foods is a company based in California, they are working on cultivating bluefin tuna and they are one of the pioneers in the field. They’re a company that we are quite close with and my personal mentor is Michael Selden, the co founder and CEO of these companies, he’s been one of our earliest supports.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And I would encourage any young entrepreneur, starting their own company, to kind of find this kind of, of mentor from someone who has been in your shoes, just a few months ahead of you. And this is the kind of expertise of advice that will bring the most value to you, because not only they have done what you are about to do, but they have made the mistakes, and they are slightly more advanced to you.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
So Phoenix was about, for instance, started one or two years ago, three years before Gourmey and it was essentially the perfect match. And it’s really a strong testimonial. So for the strong support within cultivating the ecosystem, when you find these companies that are also so mission driven, so passionate, and these entrepreneur teams that are really here to make an impact, the communication is really direct and really easy and they offer help very, very easily. So shout out to Finless Foods and Mitel for their help since the very early days of Gourmey.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And the certain essentiall call for support would be yes, as I said any chefs willing to try our product to play with our product to potentially partner during our launch are welcome to contact me on nicolas@gourmey.com also investors. We are going to start raising our next round of funding around the end of this year. So if you’re really interested in cultivated meat and you want to learn more about Gourmey, I’m happy to schedule first calls with you.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And number three, obviously, we are still looking for amazing people to complement the team and join the team. We have a dedicated website called join.gmail.com. Again, still with why we have openings in regulatory we have regular openings in cell biology and molecular biology, we still have more input science. So anyway, if you’re just passionate about the field, and you don’t fit to a specific box, we also have an open application.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
And we always take time to review them or I’m regularly having calls with people that don’t necessarily directly fit with a specific position but just to build this network and to nurture all the energy of people that want to join this field and this ecosystem which is super energizing to see because every week there are more people that are aware of the field of proteins and cultivated meat that want to give their expertise and to contribute. So join Gourmey.com
Andrew D Ive
Perfect and Gourmey.com for more general reach outs, whether it’s investors, LinkedIn, I’m guessing you’re available on that if anyone is interested in Gourmey either from an investment perspective or whatever big idea ventures invested so you can always reach out to me through LinkedIn and I’ll make sure to connect you with Nicolas. A big shout out to Michael Selden for being a great mentor to Nikolas. It’d be great to get him out or Brian on or even Shannon on the on the call. And then I’m going to get Brandon getting pissed off with me for not mentioning him. So either Michael Bryan Shannon or Brandon. Would be great to have them on on the podcast at some point as well. Nicholas, thank you for everything you do. Thank you for being probably about 30 minutes over what you told me you had.
Nicolas Morin-Forest
Thanks for having us. Thanks for the support that the BIV team provided for the past two years. That’s really been a game changer for us.
Andrew D Ive
I told you not to say that. Okay. I’m going to press pause, and then I’m going to come back and thank you one moment. Let me see …..
Andrew D Ive
- So I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Nicolas from Gourmay. If you want to reach out to Nicolas, you can get hold of him on nicolas@gourmey.com. A really interesting company focused on cell based Foise gras, are based in France. So any questions, any comments, please do post them we’d really do want to engage with you. And by all means subscribe so that you can get notified of next week’s podcast so you can listen to the next interesting conversation on that future of food with another founder. So look forward to next week’s conversation and hope you can listen to that one too.