Podcast #52 Andrew speaks with Genuine Taste’s Emily Farrar and Pooya Mamaghani about the future of cultivated meat.
Genuine Taste is a pioneering cell agriculture firm with a primary focus on enhancing fat production. Their mission is to infuse alternative meat products with authentic flavor, aroma, and texture, elevating their appeal by imbuing them with that irresistible “meatiness.” Through their innovative technology, they are on a path to bring the true essence of meat to our palates while simultaneously forging a sustainable and compassionate future for the food industry.
Big Idea Ventures has launched our very own podcast “The Big Idea Podcast: Food”. Each week Big Idea Ventures Founder Andrew D. Ive will speak with some of the most innovative minds in the food space and talk about the exciting projects they are a part of.
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Episode Transcript
Andrew D Ive 00:00
Welcome to the Big Idea podcast, where we focus on food. Today we’re going to be talking to Puya Mamad and Emily Farrar from Genuine Taste, a company in Canada focused on cultivated fat. So, interesting conversation. I do get a little dark at times in terms of why cultivated might end up being a key way for producing protein for us as a country,or as a species, moving forward. So, hope you enjoyed today’s podcast. Let us know your thoughts. Many thanks.
Andrew D Ive 00:48
Hi, Emily. Hi, Puya. Welcome. So for everyone tuning in, this is Genuine Taste with Emily and Puya. Welcome. Welcome
Emily Farrar 01:12
Hello, everyone. We’re Genuine Taste and we’re excited to join you today, Andrew, to discuss the future of food and cultivated fat.
Andrew D Ive 01:36
So genuine taste cultivated fat. We’ve done a few conversations on cultivated before, but for those who might be tuning in for the first time, why don’t you guys tell us what you specifically do and kind of put everybody on the same page?
Emily Farrar 01:52
Yeah, so we’re currently working on cultivated bovine fat, we’re working on benchtop scale. So we’re producing 10s of grams of cultivated bovine fat in the lab per batch, and our cultivated fat will be an ingredient for alternative protein manufacturers. So people working on plant based sausages and burgers, as well as we’re targeting cultivated meat companies,who are focused more on muscle tissue who are b2c. So that’s when you’re thinking of, like future new technologies or companies like that.
Pooya Mamaghani 02:25
Yeah, just to elaborate for people that don’t know what cultivated meat means, basically you take some cells from an animal and you just expand them in a bioreactor instead of using the animal itself, which is a living creature as a bioreactor, that what we use, we just use those animals for feeding and it can be done in bioreactors, and it will have enormous positive effects on sustainability, less carbon footprint, and, more importantly, their cruelty that is currently in practice in Animal Farm.
Andrew D Ive 03:09
So right now we’re growing fat and meat on the backs of skeletons on animals, in farms, in factory farms in different facilities and this is a way of taking that cell, that fat, etc, and growing it in a clean, slash sterile environment, so there’s no pathogens, there’s no diseases and so on and that’s within a bioreactor. Correct?
Emily Farrar 03:40
Yeah, exactly and it’s much more energy efficient in terms of calories in calories out, so much less energy required to grow meat in bioreactors,or fat in our case, than it is to grow an entire animal and then just eat a part of it.
Andrew D Ive 03:55
Perfect, and you mentioned that you’re using the fat as a hybrid product. So in other words, either adding that fat, that bovine fat that you grow, in either plant based products, so sausages, burgers, or cultivated meat, so other cultivated meat products, where you’re bringing your cultivated fat together with their cultivated meat. So typically, we’d call that a hybrid, right, where we’re bringing different kinds together to create that final product. Why did you not, and it’s just a question that occurred to me as you were describing the products you would work with, why did you not talk about putting it together with regular meat?
Puya Mamod 04:42
Yeah, basically, the whole point here is just to not use meat and to not slaughter the animals. We are using fat, because fat is usually 5% to 25% of meat consumption, but it contributes a lot to the taste and the aroma and the juiciness. This is perfectly well suited for hybrid products, for the products that are already there or will be there, but they lack the taste and aroma of natural meat that we are used to. So we are going to add this to the alternative forms of proteins, that are there, but they are not capturing a big consumer base because they are not mimicking enough the real meat.
Andrew D Ive 05:37
It’s interesting because I had a conversation with a person some time ago, and they basically said, if we take regular meat, and we add 20% cultivated to that regular meat, we would potentially need 20% less regular meat. So it’s almost like adding ethanol to petroleum or gasoline. Where, you know, by adding that additive that you’re taking out, you’re able to use more, you know, you’re able to get more out of the original. And therefore, by adding 20% fat, for example to traditional meat, you need less than 20% Less original meat. So you’re achieving the same objective of reducing meat consumption, traditional meat consumption, and yet you’re giving people a product, which is very familiar to them something they’re probably easily able to mentally get behind. Does that make sense?
Emily Farrar 06:45
Yeah, I think that’s definitely an interesting approach when we haven’t explored ourselves. But I think just philosophically for us anything that reduces environmental impact, and like unethical treatment of animals is a step closer to the goal. But I do imagine there would be, it would be great for people who are already meat eaters, but I think there are a subset of people who don’t want any animal product from an animal that has been slaughtered. So then you would have difficulties with, like, we’ve definitely interviewed people where they’re currently vegans or vegetarians, but they would eat cultivated meat or fat because an animal wasn’t harmed. So I think you would miss out on a lot of those people, but it’s definitely an interesting way to kind of get your foot in.
Andrew D Ive 07:29
Yeah, I think there’s two things to consider. One is that, you know, vegans are in the one to one and a half percent of population for the US at this point, vegetarians I think are in the 7% to 8% range of the total population. So meat consumers are in the 93% range. So if you want, you can take 20% of of the meat that the 93% consume and substituted with cell based, so that the product that they’re getting is absolutely identical to what they’re used to consuming, you’re probably going to have more of an impact than trying to convince them to eat plant based products and adding a fat component, so the plant based products are juicier.
Andrew D Ive 08:27
So from an environmental and from an animal welfare perspective, in the short term, it might it might have much greater impact bringing cultivated together with traditional meat versus adding it to plant based or adding it to maybe cultivated maybe, I don’t know, just an interesting somebody brought that to my attention, and I’m like, that’s actually quite thoughtful.
Emily Farrar 08:54
That’s not the most intuitive answer when you’re thinking about this field so yeah,
Emily Farrar 09:01
like something
Pooya Mamaghani 09:02
Yes, basically like electric cars. There are so many models hybrid like gasoline, oil, gasoline and like the electric one or like the electric one with solar panels on, there are so many varieties, but the goal is known, so we are going to reduce and reduction will be rebuilt on so I think, from a logical point of view, it’s a good answer. Again, like we need to see how customers will react to that. We think that there are so many people that are flexitarian they wont try anything that is close to meat, but as you mentioned, for many that might be possible, like easier for them to transition bit by bit from regular meat rather than go straight to plant based meat.
Andrew D Ive 09:58
I think you’ve got a really interesting answer, which is, let’s give people lots of choices, let’s give them the plant based with the cultivated fat component. So it’s juicy here and not at all animal based. Let’s take the fat and bring it together with traditional meat so that it’s less traditional meat consumption. From an environmental footprint perspective, animal welfare perspective, let’s bring it together with cultivated as well, and give people even more choices, let people choose what’s going to be right for them either based on their economics, or their taste preferences, or even their environmental sustainability preferences.
Andrew D Ive 10:42
So, so, let’s, I’m gonna pivot slightly now that people understand what genuine tastes does, and sort of understand a little bit more about you guys. So how did you get started? What What made you start genuine taste? Where do you both sort of come from? I don’t mean, you know, you were born in Brighton or nothing. I mean, you know, how did you get? How did you get to arriving at a place where you said, Okay, we’re going to build a company called Genuine Taste, and we’re going to bring cultivated fat to the world.
Pooya Mamaghani 11:18
Yeah, that’s a great question. Do you want to start or, basically like, I did my PhD in biophysics in Cambridge, and I was working on mesenchymal stem cells, stem cells that originally usually reside in bone marrow, and then they make cartilage, fat, and connective tissue. So I was working in the field, I was seeing that there are like movements to do cultivated fat and cultivated meat more in general. So I went on to form another company on diagnostic devices but, because of COVID, I had to give up on that company. Then I started to think about the field. So I attended a conference about the field and enrolled in an incubation program, that’s where I met Emily.
Pooya Mamaghani 12:16
Emily will talk about herself more, she came from a sustainability, management, background, and then it was like, I was trying to maximize two things, how I can help the environment more the planet more, and also how I can use my skills. So that was why we started Genuine Taste and the fat, as I told is a very important component. There’s so many people working in cultivated meat, talking about meats like more muscle, but kind of knew that fat has more effect, because it’s a very small component of the overall meat that we eat, but it has a great effect on the taste, and the aroma.
Andrew D Ive 13:10
So So tell us about the last 12 months. What’s that all been about? And where are you now? What are you? What are you kind of focused on now?
Pooya Mamaghani 13:10
So we thought that this is going to be very good place to start the small component. So even if it’s slightly more expensive to make it in lab, but it’s more economically feasible to add it makes it a very ideal component for hybrid products. So we started from there, and then we got some funding, then joined Big Idea ventures, which really helped us to go forward. It’s more than a year for us coming up on our one year anniversary.
Emily Farrar 13:46
Yeah, so I didn’t give you my background.
Andrew D Ive 13:56
Oh yeah, apologies, please talk us through that.
Emily Farrar 14:03
But yeah, before I started working on this idea with Pooya, I actually had an engineering background and worked a few years in sustainability consulting, looking at different ways to reduce GHG impacts. And so yeah, this idea really appealed to me in terms of reducing impact on the planet as well, and I’m a foodie so really excited to be in the food space, and last 12 months. Yeah, it’s been a whirlwind, it moves, things move so quickly. We’ve been really lucky to have a really supportive ecosystem. Big Idea Ventures and Canada in particular, I’d say, is very, very supportive in terms of cell agriculture. There are a lot of good funding Initiatives, Partnerships. They’re starting a lot of bioreactor facilities to kind of help startups so they don’t have to put all their capital towards buying infrastructure.So yeah, do you want to add anything?
Pooya Mamaghani 14:59
Right now we have made like benchtop prototype. And we are talking to, as Emily mentioned, some scale up plans that are available here. So we are using like industry available bio reactors to do a scale up or prototype, we have some very meaningful pilot projects signed with both plant based and cultivated meat companies around the world. We want to execute those plans and make hybrid products tests, to see how they behave and how customers will react to them. Hopefully, after getting this feedback, you will at least help people like work on them and go for scale up in industrial scale in a year or two.
Andrew D Ive 15:54
Okay. So Canada has been really helpful. What do you see? So what do you see as focus for the next, let’s say, two to three years? And what can we expect from that? There’s two things really, Product and Regulatory. So on the one hand, you guys are driving forward with the technology to get your product to a point where it can be grown and scaled and on the other, you’ve got to be allowed to, at some point in your in your debt journey, you’ve got to be allowed to sell the product. So what are your thoughts on both of those kind of two elements?
Emily Farrar 16:41
Yeah, so I think we’re pretty excited on the regulatory standpoint, because as I’m sure you’ve seen, we’ve had two companies get FDA letter of no objection, for cultivated chicken products. So I feel like we’re hitting the timing pretty well, we’ll be able to see them go through the journey of getting full regulatory approval before we’re at full scale. So that’s pretty exciting. I think in terms of support, though, it’s really helpful to have larger partners, so say, like larger CPGs, who have like a lot of resources. on the regulatory side, it’s a lot of experience getting regulatory approval if they’re able to partner with startups like us, and kind of help us along the way, that would be really great. Do you want to talk a little bit about scalability?
Pooya Mamaghani 17:31
Yeah, yes. So basically, as I mentioned previously, like the companies in the space, they raised a lot, and the plan was to build everything together, but I think the future in the field is going to be like modular development. You will have smaller companies that are working on different modules of the production and probably you don’t need to have the whole facility to grow up your product, and like from A to Zed. So we hope that by the by, like there are already some players that are coming in, they’re offering, industrial scale facilities to companies like us. So I think it will really play a big role in scale up problems that we have nowadays, in the space.
Pooya Mamaghani 18:26
I believe that the next two, three years, it will be much easier for companies to do semi industrial scale ups, and that will also change how the world looks at this industry right now. It’s like a nice science experiment, mostly boring, it’s hard when you’re operating benchtops for people to get past the idea that this is a cute little science experiment and once we start producing at scale, and bioreactors are at pilot scale, you get past some of those thoughts. Yeah, I think it will change Paul Hall consumers Hall, even governments will look at that. And the fact that Bible of regulatory approvals, which is FDA, is going into that direction, they already gave this approval. And I think it will trigger a cascade of approvals around the globe. That’s coming.
Pooya Mamaghani 19:33
So I’m very optimistic about what’s going on right now. Both from shifting the paradigm of having everything in like from A to Z in one company, and also regulatory better. So hopefully in two, three years, we will see a big jump in this industry and I think genuine vision will be also benefiting from that atmosphere and it’s very good timing for us to put our product in full scale up.
Andrew D Ive 20:03
I think there’s a couple of things I’d like to focus in on in terms of what you said. The regulatory approval, I believe, as you do, will open up more. So, you know, we’ve already seen upside and just, for example, on the Singaporean side of regulatory side opening up, so both us and Singapore. And so yeah, I totally agree with you that over the next, let’s say, 2, 3, 4 years, there’ll be more approvals, the regulatory environment will get less restrictive, around cultivated.
Andrew D Ive 20:38
I’m interested in your idea of modular and from a scale up perspective, and let me outline why upside has invested quite a few millions of dollars to set up a large, almost pharmaceutical grade production facility. So that they can produce, you know, they’ve raised enough money to be able to actually set up their own manufacturing facility at scale.
Andrew D Ive 21:10
I’ve seen other companies try and do that. And then the money they raise, whether it’s 20, 50, 100 million dollars, or whatever it might be, they suck, they find they’re no longer in the the, in the business of the technology and, and solving those problems, they start worrying about shiftwork. And, you know, running a factory and things like that things that they don’t necessarily have experience or knowledge around. So the idea that you just put forward have sort of cultivated modular, where different companies are doing different pieces of the puzzle, do you see them partnering with larger meat companies at the end of the day, like a maple leaf, or Tyson or a JBS or somebody along those, those lines where they will produce, they’ll create the facility, and you guys will come in as sort of modular plugs of with the different technologies to allow them to deliver on whether it’s a beef for a chicken or whatever it might be, is that is that the vision when you say modular?
Pooya Mamaghani 22:23
Yeah, I mean, that’s a part of the vision, but as you said, I think it will be more similar to what happened to the cell phone industry. You have Apple of the world and you will have Foxconn of the world that like produce things and at the same time, you will have different components as you have in that industry. So, like for example, we will have fats, the company like us will focus on fat and then as you said that big companies like Maple Leaf, they are already investing in the space they are aware of the wave that is coming and feed huge amount of cash into facilities that they have that are easily convertible to produce production facilities for cultivated meat or space as well.
Pooya Mamaghani 23:18
So, I think as you mentioned, we will have them too as a heart of production for the seal like you will have a lot of companies that offer IP, offer different components like small beads that goes to this bioreactors media, etc, they will produce small companies and also keep up with the r&d and like constant improvements of the products that we need because this is a new field, and like any new technology that’s tried there will bea lot of improvements to reach a point that is really feasible from a production point of view, and from a cost point of view so I think ultimately we will have those big players as a hub, and we will have small players too as a provider. So this is what I see for the industry in future. What are your thoughts Emily?
Emily Farrar 24:26
Yeah, I think I pretty well agree with Pooya, but I think there might also be some room because I think we’re seeing some cdmos pop up that are allowing companies like us to remain a bit more independent perhaps and maybe also sell to smaller players and smaller plant based before we go too much further.
Andrew D Ive 24:47
Can you outline cdmo for people?
Emily Farrar 24:50
Actually, what does it stand for? It’s like companies that provide bio reactors, different research r&d periods pulling up with cdmos.
Andrew D Ive 25:07
You pulling it up? I know what I think it means. Contract Development Manufacturing Operations. Yeah, yes. Contract manufacturing effectively.
Emily Farrar 25:22
Yeah, exactly. Thank you.
Andrew D Ive 25:23
Yes. Well, you’re welcome. You basically believe there are contract manufacturers who will bring together the expertise of companies like Genuine Taste, to produce products for other people, maybe they’ll do it for Maple Leaf, maybe they’ll do it for Tyson, right?
Pooya Mamaghani 25:27
There are two possible models here like one is you will have a big player like Maple Leaf, that wants to produce the final product, or there will be some big facility providers that rent their space for companies, it will really depend on how much innovation is gathered there. So if you have a big cultivated company that has the old IP, then they can be Apple of the world, and the new facilities will be just manufacturing. Or if one of these current big players like Tyson can manage to acquire and gather the IP to themselves, then they can do both. It depends on how they will react as if they are adhering to their traditional meat companies, meat products, and they want to go for a competition, probably if they lose that they will lose everything. But if they decide to be hub of the IP and like, clean the future as well, then that will be like they can be to help themselves. So I think really depends on their behavior.
Pooya Mamaghani 27:05
But from what we see, they are very aware of what’s going on and what will happen because they they have created venture arms that invest heavily in some of the big players in cultivated space. So I feel that they took their lessons from what happened to the electronic industry or to telecommunications that those who resisted the changes, somehow they lost everything. So I think they will be smart this time.
Emily Farrar 27:38
Yeah. But I think like that’s a really good solution for the short term when costs are really high for medium bio reactors. But ideally, longer term in the future, I would like it to be more decentralized, rather than just have like most things in the hands of these big players.
Andrew D Ive 27:57
So there’s a couple of things. One is, the technology is pretty much there, right? Whether it’s upside at scale, you guys have benchtop we know the technology works, we’re working on getting to the point where it can be scaled up and therefore the margins, the production costs, etc, will be brought down to the point where they are ideally comparable with traditional meat, which is a tough one because traditional meat has been, from a process perspective, scaled up over decades. So they’ve been able to bring efficiencies to that, that model to the nth degree, like significant volumes, significant processing, etc. So but let’s just get there, the technology is there. From a cultivated perspective. We know it works. We know we can eventually get there.
Andrew D Ive 28:54
Corporates are investing so we know the corporates are interested. One of the things I’ve been thinking about and I think about this a lot, unfortunately, for me, is governments and consumers. So one of the things I’ve seen over the last few years is governments have become increasingly interested in cultivated technologies, because of the food security challenges and the kind of political instability we’ve seen globally over the last three or four years, whether it’s because of pandemics or, or war, or whatever it might be, and governments are saying, hey, maybe we can actually efficiently produce this protein domestically without needing to give up large swathes of land to animals. So governments are starting to get involved in this as well as corporates.
Andrew D Ive 29:53
The other thing I wonder about is consumers because justbecause we can do something from a technology perspective, doesn’t mean that the end consumer is going to want it. So what are your thoughts on either of those two subjects? the government’s and what you’re seeing happening and or consumers who’s going to be ready to consume these products when they’re available at scale?
Emily Farrar 30:19
Yeah, I think we’ve definitely observed the same trend in terms of government’s looking at this in terms of food security, securing the supply chain, really simplifying the supply chain as well. And keeping domestic production. I think there’s also a lot of interest from governments in terms of high tech, there are a lot of good manufacturing jobs out of this industry.
Emily Farrar 30:44
We actually had a very similar conversation, with one of our advisors, Sylvain Shawa, who runs the Food Food Institute at Dalhousie, and he had a pretty similar conversation with us around supply chains and food security. So I think that’s definitely an interest among governments and academics. Do you have anything to add here?
Pooya Mamaghani 31:10
When it comes to consumers, there are a few factors that are affecting it, one is new generation which is more about sustainability issues and animal welfare. Also, I think, at the end of the day, like any other technology or technology cultivated, one needs to offer something that is not offered by traditional methods.
Pooya Mamaghani 31:41
My personal view, which I ultimately believe will happen, is that cultured meat will offer some aspect in health for example, we believe that we can make much healthier fat. It’s possible to culture different types of cells and come up with a new portfolio of taste, which is superior to traditional meat. Traditional meat grew up over thousands of years of evolution to make us protein, but we didn’t really optimize it for taste or health.
Pooya Mamaghani 32:43
The tools that we have in the lab, I’m imagining that we will compete with traditional meat and since there is always fear around new products, especially in food, just like there is a fear right now in the in the public to try new things. But that fear will be passed, sooner or later, because people will see that it’s safe, etc. and then the real competition between meat and cultivated meat will grow. We can offer nutritional values and healthiness, that traditional meat cannot. So I think there will be real competition and I think that cultivated meat has a lot of chances to be in that competition.
Emily Farrar 33:46
I think there’s also an interesting marketing play here by conventional meat because it’s very much like the assumption is it’s very natural. You have happy cows running in fields, like industrial animal agriculture can be like, almost in terms of artificiality, like antibiotics use, like the cleanliness of conditions like it’s, it’s not all happy cows running around in fields. So I think there’s a little more.
Andrew D Ive 34:14
I know where you’re going with that, like traditional animal farming, animal production is really not as green and organic, because people assume but I think people in the back of their minds know that. I think anyone that’s watched a food documentary on Netflix kind of gets that. The realist, the realistic version of food production is very different from the sort of fiction of food production. It’s one of the things that I’ve been thinking about recently, again, I think way too much about this stuff. I remember saying about five years ago, that our food system was quite fragile, and eventually a shock to the system is going to show us how fragile the food system is.
Andrew D Ive 35:04
And then COVID happened. I still remember walking around supermarkets, seeing people running around with baskets, desperately looking for food, seeing half of the shelves empty and getting quite frantic about taking, grabbing what they could, even if they didn’t necessarily want it, because they were scared that the next time they came to a supermarket, a day later, or three days later, maybe there’d be nothing.
Andrew D Ive 35:34
People were acting quite illogically. Or maybe it was logical based on the circumstance of the moment. Given how some of these animals are treated and the environment that they’re in, I would not be surprised if at some point in the next five years or so, what happened to us from a pandemic perspective, if humanity doesn’t impact animals in the same way, not COVID, but some other form of pandemic. I think it’s quite possible in the next five years or so we’ll have another pandemic, but around the animals that we’re growing. and a significant percentage of the animals that we grow today may not be, and I hate to kind of put it in these terms, but edible.
Andrew D Ive 36:28
At which point, whether we like it, or not, the kind of technologies you guys are working on, where people think they’re going to have a choice about do I do cultivated? Do I do, you know, air quotes traditional, maybe that choice won’t be there in five years time, maybe it will be if you want to eat meat, it needs to be through a cultivated approach. I hope it doesn’t happen. I feel like I’m writing a science fiction novel.
Emily Farrar 36:58
Well who thought COVID would be a thing? I never imagined that the COVID pandemic would be a thing.
Puya Mamod 37:05
It had happened before …..
Andrew D Ive 37:06
Yep, we’ve had swine flu. We’ve had African swine flu amongst pigs where 80% of the pig stock in China needed to be killed because of disease. It’s possible, it’s possible.
Puya Mamod 37:23
Yeah, and we had mad cow disease as well, if you remember in 2000s? So that’s completely possible. And statistically it will definitely happen again. Because you have a lot of animal culture, cells from animals thatcould be contaminated by a virus or bacteria. So there is a big possibility, I think that we will have it in next few years or next decades, etc. So, as you said, like this, this can be not a choice at some point. Hopefully, it’s not going to be near but it’s a reality.
Andrew D Ive 38:13
I didn’t want to go down this route in this podcast, but I think you guys and other companies like yours, who are solving the challenges, and it’s funny, maybe about four or five years ago, companies in this space were focused on cell lines. So hey, we’re going to focus on chicken, we’re going to focus on beef, we’re going to focus on pork, and then they realized as they moved through the development cycle, that there were things missing that we needed to solve. So replacing FBS as part of the growth factor or scaffold, the ability to create a three dimensional item and not just a meat ball or a sludge or a slurry.
Andrew D Ive 39:09
I think there are companies like yours out there solving these problems. Some of the problems have already been solved at FBS replacement for example. So what do you see the challenges of scale at this point? Is FBS still a thing? Is scaffolding still a thing? Or do you see this modular approach that you described Pooja as the way of bringing a total solution to market?
Puya Mamod 39:38
I think it’s like a hybrid solution but not all of the needs have been completely resolved. They’re huge progress made. There is a lot of innovation that can be done. But modular solving will help a lot into what we already have there. There are so many restrictions based on IP and like the traditional competitions it doesn’t take so much to get all the best in same place. Those hurdles are being eliminated by cooperation. I think the older companies in the space, they realize that if we want to be successful as an industry, we need to put our best together.
Puya Mamod 40:33
Companies like non profit organizations, like good food Institute, or new harvest, and also huge investors that have a big portfolio like Big Idea Ventures, they’re kind of working in this direction of more cooperation. We are solving the problem from many approaches, like there is no one single approach that we can take and solve the problem. So basically, I think we are on the right track, to put all the old things together, and also try the new model of modularity to make this idea of cultivation. Make it feasible. Another approach is the mindset of the whole cultivated meat product is changing, as you said, the hybrid product small, starting with a small percentage of cultivated product, together with conventional either plant based or real meat is also playing a huge role in rolling the ball for the industry.
Andrew D Ive 41:52
So, I’m going to ask the questions I normally ask towards the end of a podcast. We’ve actually spoken longer than I thought we would, but I’ve been so interested in what you guys have been saying. So apologies. One last question. Before we get to those normal questions I ask at the end. Give me your perspective, in 10 years time, what percentage of consumption in the United States and Canada, will be cultivated meat versus traditional or original meat however you want to think about it? What percentage would you guess is going to be cultivated?
Emily Farrar 42:33
I think my guess would be maybe 20%, will be cultivated, what do you guess?
Puya Mamod 42:38
I feel it depends on what happens in the market
Emily Farrar 42:43
I think it also depends on the market
Puya Mamod 42:44
Market conditions, like what happens to traditional meat, in terms of supply chain or if there was a zoonotic disease widespread, or impacts of climate change? Those things will determine the future growth. But I would guess like 50% of that. Again, it depends also on the cultivated side as well, which, if we can reduce the price, meaningfully for customers. But I’m very optimistic about that. I feel that there is a Moore’s law here as well. Like in electronics, every year or two years, we are seeing the prices come down in an exponential way.
Puya Mamod 43:38
I think it’s going to be a big player, like how much this trend can go in terms of reducing the cost and what will happen to traditional meat, but definitely I see big potential, like maybe half enough as I said, let’s see.
Andrew D Ive 44:07
A couple of things. One data point is that future meat in Israel, are able to produce chicken breasts, I believe, at only a 20% increase in price versus traditional chicken breasts, which is pretty impressive given how many chickens we produce on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. The other thing I read, which is quite interesting recently, is that California is going to be banning the production and sale of salmon this year because we’ve overfished salmon so much in California that they’re concerned about the quantity remaining of wild salmon in California.
Andrew D Ive 44:55
There’s something like I think, I don’t know if this can be right, but the article said something along the lines of only 170,000 salmons will be swimming up river to spawn in California this year, which is not that many. It sounds like a lot of fish, but when you consider the amount of salmon we eat on a regular basis, that doesn’t seem a lot to me. So, you know, seafood is going to be an interesting one, as well as traditional terrestrial meats like chicken, pigs, cows, etc. Seafood is something we’ve been overfishing now, for some time. Anyway, I’m gonna really depress myself today. Not sure what I’m doing.
Andrew D Ive 45:40
Anyway, let’s get to the normal questions. What kind of help can people give you at Genuine Taste? What sort of things do you need? How do you bring your mission to the world? Tell us.
Emily Farrar 46:00
Yeah, so I’m sure we’re gonna give the most common answer, but investment is always appreciated. So we’re currently raising USD 2.5 million seed round. So just any warm intros to investors, if you’d like to reach out to us on LinkedIn, I think our we’re just genuine-taste, and then outside of investment, because that’s the boring, most common answer, we’re always looking to talk to potential customers. So if any plant based meat companies or cultivated meat companies are listening to this and are interested in partnering with us to meet……
Andrew D Ive 46:36
Or traditional meat companies, there you go. Open that mind.
Emily Farrar 46:41
Yeah, that would be great. And then, yeah, we’re always also looking for scale up partners as well. We’ve identified and have a few soft commitments with some some pilot facilities, but we’re always on the search for more bioreactor facilities. So that’s the third, third.
Puya Mamod 46:59
Yeah, if anybody thinks that they know more than us or better than us and they want to advise us, we are happy to jump on a call and get their opinion, and benefit from it.
Andrew D Ive 47:13
And give us give us the spelling of Genuine please.
Andrew D Ive 47:42
So Genuine Tastes you’re on LinkedIn.
Emily Farrar 47:45
Yes.
Andrew D Ive 47:46
Do you have a regular website?
Emily Farrar 47:48
Yes, we do. It’s genuine taste.co. We wanted to subscribe for the M but it was already taken I think.This was before we received funding so there is no M. I think on our website you can also subscribe to our newsletter for updates if you are interested
Puya Mamod 48:18
yeah. And also if they view our website there is an email to contact us. Contact us at Genuine Taste. Just write to us if you have any concerns, any offer or any desire to talk, we are very happy to hear from you guys.
Andrew D Ive 48:41
So I just went to LinkedIn. I typed in genuine taste, a black circle with a yellow circle and the words genuine taste appeared. It said biotechnology research in Toronto and then it says Puya Mamod Garney PhD works there. So that’s puya mamod garney works there as co founder of Genuine Taste. Not no idea why you’re not appearing Emily.
Emily Farrar 49:14
on LinkedIn. Maybe
Andrew D Ive 49:17
I was because Puya was nice enough to connect with me and you haven’t bothered? Yeah. I’m just, I’m just messing today. All right. So great to speak to Genuine Taste. Emily and Puya. Thank you so much for your time today. I hope I didn’t depress people too much by the talk of animal based COVID equivalents or anything like that. So hopefully people forgive me and enjoy their day for listening.
Andrew D Ive 49:46
Thanks, everyone. I’m going to press pause, and guys, don’t go away, I’ll be right back. Thank you for coming along to our podcast today. This is Andrew. I’m your host from the Big Idea podcast where we focus on food. Today’s conversation was with Genuine Taste, Emily and Puya who you can get in contact with via LinkedIn, or via genuinetaste.co
Andrew D Ive 50:16
I’m Andrew. I’m the host and the founder of Big Idea ventures. Our mission is solving the world’s greatest challenges by supporting the world’s best entrepreneurs, scientists and engineers. If you’re an entrepreneur, scientist or engineer, feel free to reach out to us at big idea ventures.com
Andrew D Ive 50:37
If you’re a corporate, or a an investor and you want to talk to us about any of our portfolio companies, or about any of our funds, by all means, reach out to me at LinkedIn. Andrew, middle initial D, last name IVE. Apart from that, come find us at big idea. ventures.com Thanks very much. Look forward to the next podcast, which I hope you enjoy too. Thank you
Genuine Taste
Genuine Taste is a pioneering cell agriculture firm with a primary focus on enhancing fat production. Their mission is to infuse alternative meat products with authentic flavor, aroma, and texture, elevating their appeal by imbuing them with that irresistible “meatiness.” Through their innovative technology, they are on a path to bring the true essence of meat to our palates while simultaneously forging a sustainable and compassionate future for the food industry.
Big Idea Ventures
Big Idea Ventures is the world’s most active investor in FoodTech – our goal is to invest in the best Food and Agri-Tech companies globally. The company has contributed to the development of the growing alternative protein industry since its inception and has become a global leader in food innovation. BIV is backed by a strong network of strategic partners including AAK, Avril, Bühler, Givaudan, Temasek Holdings, and Tyson Ventures, and is partnering with governments around the world working on food security and new food ecosystems. The firm has offices in New York, Paris, and Singapore and has invested in more than 100 companies across 25 countries.
Big Idea Podcast: Food Host
Andrew founded Big Idea Ventures to help solve the world’s biggest challenges by supporting the world’s best entrepreneurs, scientists, and engineers. Andrew is responsible for investing and building companies across alternative protein, food tech, and agtech sectors. Andrew works with investors, corporations, and governments to invest and build the most transformative companies and ecosystems around the world. Serving on the Tufts Nutrition Council advisory board, and a Friedman School Entrepreneurship Advisor, Andrew is a Harvard Business School graduate and Procter & Gamble brand management trained. Andrew has invested in more early-stage / pre-seed food companies than most other investors worldwide. Big Idea Ventures has teams and offices in New York, Singapore and Paris.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewive/
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© Big Idea Ventures LLC 2021